Home Uncategorised Gun Buy Back or Gangster Windfall?

Gun Buy Back or Gangster Windfall?

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Guest Post from Right over Labour

The details of the Gun Buy Back were released on 20 June 2019. Predictably, they fall short of an ideal situation in that the compensation is not financially attractive. No firearm will be compensated for at 100% of its value, and there is a vagueness as to how the various categories of condition are going to be applied poor condition (25 per cent of the base price), average condition (70 per cent of the base price), and new or near-new condition (95 per cent of the base price). https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12242128

Further, the legislation has been drafted in haste and a whole range of anomalies have arisen. (https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/392181/politicians-mistakenly-agreed-to-ban-magazines-for-all-firearms )

Business will not be compensated for losses that have occurred because of this legislation.

Financially, none of this has been well thought out and the government’s estimates of the total cost are far lower than those involved in the firearm industry.

Will the Gun Buy back actually achieve anything? New Zealand does not have a high crime rate with respect to guns and most shootings are gang related. https://thehill.com/opinion/civil-rights/435110-new-zealand-gun-ban-is-not-the-answer-to-stop-mass-shootings

There is still debate on the effectiveness or impact of the Australian buyback in terms of gun related deaths or how many were not handed in. Gun deaths were dropping before the buy backs, probably a third of the firearms were not handed in, and Australia now has more firearms than before the Massacre.

http://theconversation.com/factcheck-qanda-did-government-gun-buybacks-reduce-the-number-of-gun-deaths-in-australia-85836

https://www.smh.com.au/national/more-guns-in-australia-now-than-before-the-port-arthur-massacre-report-20190327-p5188m.html

There is a willing and well established Black Market that will benefit from the Government’s ineptitude in this matter. Gun owners have three choices. Do nothing and bury the weapon hoping that a future government will introduce better legislation, (HDPA’s Bury in the Back Yard scenario), hand in the weapon and hope for fair compensation, or sell to the highest bidder. The gangs have cash and are keen to boost their arsenals. The Government may just have boosted their chances of a firearm windfall. As no one knows how many firearms are actually out there, and there is no tracing of private weapon sales, there is virtually nothing the police can do to counter this. If I owned a banned firearm, I know which of the above choices I would not be considering. I suspect many of the 200,000 or so firearm owners may be thinking similar thoughts.

45 COMMENTS

  1. If one was to agree with the concept of selling to the highest bidder, how would one find that high bidder? Asking for a friend

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  2. Why are they using the PN Police station to run this buy back?
    Is it because they have experience with guns?
    Or is it because they can control the security of them!

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    • ‘Gun City’ has been asked to become a place to hand-in your firearm.

      I suppose the “base price” is for the firearm alone as the CoL are not including payment for any extras such as sites and whatever else you can add to your firearm.

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      • I had not heard that about Gun City. I have heard the the traitorous Hunting & Fishing, the first to shaft licenced firearms owners in the immediate aftermath of March 15, have been trying to do dirty backroom deals with the police which is why there are now calls for a boycott of H&F stores circulating online.

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        • The people who registered for GST are required by law to charge GST 🙂
          The government can not be expecting them to break IRD laws? 🙂

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      • There is a certain irony there since the Gun City owner was subject to so much vitriol at the time and told how irresponsible he was.

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        • I expect he is useful to the COL because GC would have the storage facilities? They obviously cannot trust the police to keep them secure after the ‘burglary’ of the P/N police station. Have they recovered all those firearms yet? No, oh dear, what a shame. ?

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  3. What is the base price?
    Does my car or camera have a base price?
    Does Stuart Nash or Ardern or Robertson know what the base price is?
    Who will set the base price?

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    • “Base price” is, apparently, the estimated wholesale price of the firearm without any retail sale component.

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      • So is there an exemption on the sale that says that it is not required to be in the GST returns for the people who are registered for GST?
        It would seem that the government would expect the GST taxpayer to find the GST part, and that to be put into the part for GST income. 🙂

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    • As next El Presidente I am considering some retrospective legislation to ensure Govt Politicians deliver good value & sucessful outcomes for tax payers $ and am basing it on Gun Compensation as clearly our current Govt believe this is fair. Base salary for Govt MPs and Ministers as current, sucessful Ministers would receive 95% of salary (Repaying only 5% to cover overheads) Ministers who make 1 mistake or achieve nothing 75% of current salary each minister would repay a further 5% for each failure with no lower limit. Ministers who have a major failure would have their entire salary repayable including super-an contributions. Successful Ministers with demonstrable successful results would receive a bonus on an inverse scale with no upper limit. MP’s would be judged on their attendance, economy of expenses and contributions to the working of the house as select committee members and positive contributions to improving legislation.

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  4. I can just imagine our nice gang members rocking up to their local police station and asking for the base price.

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    • LOL, no price for gangs or other unlicensed gun owners.

      Why didn’t the stupid CoL announce an amnesty for unlicensed guns, no questions asked, even pay a small incentive for these to be handed in by their current owners.
      Then extend the amnesty with a buy-back scheme to licensed gun owners. for semi-automatics. The way they have implemented this law is just attacking the licensed lawful gun owners who are of no threat to anyone. No repercussions for the criminals and other unlicensed owners for not handing in their firearms. Look how many shootings we have had since March 15. All South Auckland/Kawhia gang related. Not one licensed gun owner involved in any incident.

      Meanwhile, we have cutbacks in other essential services, health, Pharmac, etc with funding being funnelled into this stupid gun-buyback. It’s going to be a complete fustercluck and hopefully the downfall of this bunch of controlling Marxists.

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      • It shows clearly that the government knows they will not get guns back from the gangs and other criminals. You have to have a firearms licence to be eligible for compensation. When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns etc.

        On a related note I expect you may have seen this a few weeks ago:
        Eleven of the deportees from Australia sent back to NZ started the Comanchero gang here. Importing trouble.
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12221455

        There was a police interview on the TV1 about it which I didn’t see – I never watch NZTV – he indicated, apparently, that these guys and their meth war was responsible for many of the shootings in last few years in NZ.

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      • I suppose they still could do the illegal amnesty thing but really why would you hand them in. As for all of those that are in agreement about semi-autos, what guns are they going to announce as verboten next? Can you lot be trusted with any guns, because the rhetoric can be applied to any and all guns?

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        • Exactly. This is why a registration scheme will fail. The only semi autos the government can be sure of getting back are those that were registered as E Category. They also have a register of all legally owned handguns, B Category endorsed licence holders, who are subject to vetting and security requirements even stricter than E Cat owners. Shooters are not daft, they know that the ONLY purpose a registration scheme has is to compile a list of guns to be eventually confiscated. Many shooters wanting to comply with the law registered their E Cat. guns and are now being made a scapegoat for a terrorist act. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me applies here.
          What would Lyin’ Cindy have tried to ban if some moslem terrorist had mowed down a bunch of school kids with a stolen white van I wonder.

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      • The base price and discount for use is legislated theft, a dangerous precedent for Labour and others.

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    • There are a lot more ‘associates’ than actual gang members in my experience, that makes the numbers harder to calculate.

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  5. The problem with burying firearms is, as a former neighbour pointed out, you may forget where you buried them. He had a bunch of WWII mementos which he buried as a result of various firearm laws that came in and in his dotage forgot where he had hidden them.

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  6. Thank you Cindy for screwing over honest Kiwis yet again first our guns then our free speech enabled by the biggest bunch of hypocritical Green scum & the DD to enter our parliament i could ramble at the sheer lunacy of this COL but i will just say they are traitors to the very people they are meant to represent only now are we finding out those people are not us average Kiwis just their fringe loons activists union scum & toadies

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  7. Are we going to see a new gun lobby party emerge? It would be well resourced, single issue, 5, 10$ from every gun owner that isn’t a surrender monkey?

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  8. I even came across some black market guns a few years back, when a guy I used to do cash work for on the weekends asked me to install a gun rack for him. He had a beautiful AK-47 with a polished rosewood stock and foregrip. 30-round mag. He also had a still-in-its-box M1 Garand replica (chinese-made but a nice rifle regardless) and I knew he did not have a gun license. I didn’t ask questions, just installed the gun rack as requested. Everyone knows someone who knows someone! Black market is obviously alive and well.

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    • Of the 3000 or so L1A1 SLRs (self loading rifles) the Army sold to the public in the eighties about 300 were registered as E Cat when the law required them to be registered. The rest are, well, out there somewhere. Guns simply don’t wear out unless you use them an awful lot. In my time I have owned several guns over a hundred years old that were in perfectly good working order with many years use left in them and, of course, they appreciate in value with time a fact the government does not seem to want to recognise. A budget Gun City AR15 that cost $1500 six months ago is realistically worth probably $3500 today if you have the right contacts.

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      • I’m being completely selfish here, as I do not agree with ANY confiscation, but my dream rifle is not the type of current controversy. There is a rifle range not far from my place where they shoot “open range” with the big stuff- .338’s and .50 caliber. Sniper rifles accurate for a mile. Bullets cost 15 to 20 bucks EACH! They are bolt-action rifles that would be useless for the dirty deed Tarrant did. When I can afford such a rifle, I’m a-joinin’ that club 🙂

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        • Better get in quick. Rumour has it that a ban on .338 and .50 cal “sniper rifles” (whatever they are) may be in the second tranche of gun laws to be announced before the end of the month. Of course the fact that neither type of rifle has ever been used in a crime in NZ or anywhere else for that matter cuts no ice with our demented politicians. But you can be sure they will trot out the “to make us all safer” BS once again.

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    • The biggest, best organized gang in the country is, apparently, going to be allowed to keep their Bushmaster AR15 rifles and Glock pistols. What’s worse they are going to try and confiscate the lawfully owned property of ordinary Kiwi shooters. Shame!

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        • Rumours suggest that this “top” is run by English immigrant and a few South African immigrant coppers who are unhappy with our gun laws. Looks like they are winning.

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          • Yes, that has been a concern of mine for a long while, importing British police with British attitudes to firearms is a very bad idea unless they can be deprogrammed and that, I’m afraid, is about as likely as getting a moslem to admit that Islam is most definitely NOT a religion of peace but rather a violent and misogynist cult.

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    • Yes, it should, for the greater good. On that matter, I guess I am a whore, I thoroughly dislike Maori being able to claim things as special people unless it suits my agenda.

      I was recently on a committee where I proposed that a claim should be made on a particular piece of land. A local council owned the land and someone there was rude about me, I left the committee shortly after as due to what was said I was asked to take a more backroom role.

      Not really that kind of gal.

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