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    • Luckily for Cindy, the Unicorn made the sailing as well. (You only need one for unicorns).

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    • Having listened to a bunch of these creationists they rely on the weasel word of ‘kinds’. It’s a nebulous term they’ll use which may refer to species, genus, family or possibly order in the taxonomy, and refuse to keep consistent on it. So, the Hovinds of the world will flip between the taxonomy to suit their arguments. So, you only need a “kind of birds” to be on the ark. IOW, these types of creationists believe and not believe at the same time in the evolution of species (just a lot more rapid but not occurring at the same time).

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  1. National manages the top three headlines in the rag, for all the wrong reasons. You better cauterise this now, Toddy. National needs to be doing it better. You can’t hold the CoL to account if you’re mired in the same bog. Now show the country how the Ardern/Clark issue should have been handled. You only get this chance once. Don’t let it simmer.

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    • I do beleive this senetnece needs more exposure:

      “The information was made available to me in my position as then acting CEO of the Auckland Rescue Helicopter Trust (ARHT), although it was sent to my private email address.”

      Sent to my private e mail address. How many other private email addresses are getting sensitive material because of the incompetency of this government? Clinton anyone?

      Now Boag can Fuck right off, she is a millstone around National’s head, but the fact that the email got sent to her private addres needs further investigating.

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      • RoL, I completely agree.
        There are so many issues raised by this event it isn’t surprising the media don’t know where to start, and Walker is the low hanging fruit for the congenitally lazy journos.
        Why was the information not protected by MoH? How did it get to Boag in the first place? Sending it to her private email address would imply a bad actor, rather than incompetence at MoH necessarily, but the questions need to be asked and answered.
        What in the name of hell did Walker think he would achieve by releasing personal information to the media? He had the public on his side with the screeching racist accusations, but has completely blown the goodwill of his supporters.
        Who the hell is advising the Party?
        So far they’ve cocked up the MAGA hat beat up, the maori faces on the front bench hysteria, the obvious reshuffle to appease Labour trolls, the Walker racism accusations and now the discipline over rogering CV-19 patients privacy.
        And Muller is still putting fluff pieces on his fb page about eating cheese rolls.
        We’re doomed, I tell ye

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    • Boag should be the first to have head off – both her and walker are just fucking morons but boag is poison to the success of the national party

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  2. Yes, Labour will dog National through to the election with this with cries of “dirty politics”. It will be a repeat of the Todd Barclay debacle. Labour is totally hypocritical but they know how to inflame the situation and bash the opposition relentlessly for any misdeeds.

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  3. COVID-19 leak: Hamish Walker’s actions ‘not reflective’ of The National Party – Todd Muller
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/covid-19-leak-hamish-walker-s-actions-not-reflective-of-the-national-party-todd-muller.html

    “I’ve demoted him, I’ve stripped him from his portfolios and I wrote last night to the board outlining my concerns, and they’re meeting today [Wednesday],” Muller told The AM Show.

    He said he’s made it clear to The National Party board that Walker’s judgement is “not what New Zealanders would expect and certainly not what I expect”.

    Asked by host Duncan Garner if Muller still had confidence in Walker, he said, “In terms of judgement, he’s left himself seriously wanting and in that context, I don’t”.

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    • The only good news is Boag should finally be removed from any position of influence. That is a good thing and has been a long time coming.

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  4. Just goes to prove Noah wasn’t a very smart man or the fool would’ve banned all chinese bats.

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  5. Little’s propaganda. “NZ’ers want.” Who was consulted?

    Dramatic report shows the major changes New Zealanders want made to our criminal justice system
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/07/dramatic-report-shows-the-major-changes-new-zealanders-want-made-to-our-criminal-justice-system.html

    The Hāpaitia te Oranga Tangata: 2019 public survey of attitudes toward the justice system, released by the Ministry of Justice, shows more than 80 percent of respondents to a random sample survey believe criminal justice resources are allocated in the wrong way.

    Overwhelmingly, respondents to the survey wanted victims’ interests at the heart of the criminal justice system, and that less serious offences – disorderly behaviour, for example – should be dealt with in communities instead of through the formal justice system.

    A majority of respondents also believed Maori should lead on solutions to criminal justice issues for Maori.

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    • Is this the same Little who held a consultation event where victims were silenced so criminals voices could be heard? No wonder his view of ‘NZers want’ is so badly skewed.

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    • “…Maori should lead on solutions to criminal justice issues for Maori”
      We still don’t have an objective definition of what a Maori is, apart from the subjective “I feel therefore I am.”

      What percentage of people who identify as Maori can hold a problem-solving conversation in Te Reo? (I am not talking about poems, songs, greetings and marae protocols but the application of Te Reo to exchange ideas and solve everyday problems.)

      I think it would be more accurate to refer to the “Maori class” in society rather than the “Maori race.” I see a lot of “class” behavior:
      – Stick to your class
      – Don’t let outsiders in
      – Don’t dis your class
      – Tow the class line
      – Live with others of your class
      – Dress like your class
      – Speak like and use the slang of your class
      – Love your class
      – Be staunch for your class, etc.

      If “Maori” is a class, then you can be as blue-eyed and freckled as, but still be 100% pure Maori.

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      • What happens to all of these born again maoris that are lilly white?
        Can they join in on the gold rush?

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        • That’s where the objective definition of “Maori” is important.
          Lilly white “maori” need to invest in carved greenstone pendants. The larger the better. They also need to drop “te reo” phrases at every opportunity, and to take great pains to “perfectly” (i.e. as approved by the Ministry) pronounce ALL maori names.
          It makes for jarring and unnatural English. For example, when you talk about the city of the 1972 Summer Olympics, do you call it Munich in English or do you pronounce it “Mu-hen” as the Germans would?
          Same principle. Consistency is important.

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      • Quote: We still don’t have an objective definition of what a Maori is, apart from the subjective “I feel therefore I am.”

        That is the NZ legislation definition: I feel therefore I am. You can change your ethnicity at will; it’s what you feel at any given moment. Plus, you can have as many as you like.

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        • So, if I “feel” that I am 65, then I can demand that I get my Gold Card?
          Ok. So the government can point out that I was born less than 65 years ago and deny my application.
          How is that different from me claiming to be female so that I can compete in womens’ sports?
          So why doesn’t the sporting body say that “you have XY chromosomes, therefore you are male”?

          Note: Klinefelter Syndrome (XXY) is present in only around 0.2% or less of male live births. It makes no sense to upend the system for the sake of a tiny minority of the population.

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          • I imagine when the clueless postmodernist keep pushing their crap, yes you will be able to feel you’re 65 and claim the pension. At the moment, ethnicity is a feeling. Though if you want to claim the perks of being Maori, you need to show lineage…they aren’t about to hand over money based on feelings just yet…

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      • To become part of the ummah,
        “a supra-national community with a common history”
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ummah

        then all else of the past becomes Jahiliyyah
        “Cultural cleansing is a way to claim political power within a certain territory as well as control over history.”
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jahiliyyah
        The old history is to be cut off, like cutting off your arm, so it can also be to keep modernity practices at bay also.

        Individually the maori would gain power from islam, but must pretty much forgo the “maori”.

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    • Crap. The vast majority of the well adjusted & sane have been trolleyed multiple times.

      It’s the crusty, conservative Xtians of Kiwiblog who make up most of the 32%. 🙂

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      • and me Nasska, although I may have inhaled 2nd hand on a few occasions.

        “Diva diesel” is my preference 🍷😊

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        • Since I typed my comment above I’ve been giving the subject a bit of thought & I can’t think of anyone left alive that I know well enough to have broached the subject with who hasn’t tried it. That’s not to say that they liked it or repeated the experiment.

          It would be fair to say that I avoid Skydaddy’s followers like the plague but most of the people I & my family associate with are just normal Kiwis. I still don’t get the 32%.

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      • Nasska, or the terrified parents that dont want to see their beloved 13 and 14 year olds turn into smelly unproductive 30 year olds like some of my friends.
        Im definitely one of the 68% but can see the dangers legalised dope can do , why do you think it got the nickname DOPE , LOL.

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        • ……”Im definitely one of the 68% but can see the dangers legalised dope can do”……

          How do you feel about the dangers of illegal dope? Ask some of the 13 & 14 YOs you refer to about if they can buy a tinnie by lunchtime today. They’ll probably get you a a couple of point bags of meth at the same time if you wanted it.

          Point is that anyone who wants to smoke dope is doing it now. Marijuana doesn’t wreck lives. Tests for marijuana use do.

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          • nasska, nah ,its a fact that if you ask every tweaker meth head if they started with dope 99.9% of them will say “of course”.
            Alcohol is far more damaging to society but I’ve never had anyone say it made them take up the pipe, marijuana is the gateway drug into most addicts ruined lives and it’s especially damaging to young teenagers when their brain is still in development.
            Legalising it will bring chaotic outcomes for young vulnerable teenagers,bet your house on it.

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    • I have naive and ethical objections to supporting criminal enterprises by buying cannabis. Do these people declare their income and pay taxes?

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      • Lol, and their illegal firearms 🤑

        Their legal income is from the Winz benefit 🤨

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  6. When Bill Clinton made the same claims in his second inaugural speech, “kiwis” (IOW, activist journalists) didn’t give a crap. The Donald incorrectly making the same claims: the sky has fallen:

    “US President Donald Trump has given the US credit for splitting the atom in a speech which has outraged New Zealanders.”

    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/07/us-president-donald-trump-causes-outrage-by-claiming-us-split-the-atom-invented-telephone-won-both-world-wars.html

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      • It’s the double standard at play. As I said, Clinton made the same series of claims in his second inaugural speech. Our “reporters” at the time: silence. Trump does it: the sky has fallen from the very same “reporters”.

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    • Rutherford certainly was a NZ’er who split the atom but I understand Rutherford did so at a US university. Trump is right, but Rutherford is still ours.

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      • No,
        Rutherford’s work on “splitting the atom” was undertaken at Manchester University, UK

        He never worked in USA… tho’ he spent 6-7 Years at McGill Uni, Montreal, Canada.

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        • Einstein was born in Germany. However, it is in American Universities that he is most famous. Where one is born is not necessarily the be-all and end-all.. look at me, I was born in Johannesburg…..

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        • Well there you go, Trump was wrong. His speech was about the US shooting for the stars. NZ should be used to having our special NZ’ers claimed by others, Aussie do it all the time! 🇳🇿

          How’s Duckduck Maggy? Has she moved herself into the shed out of the cold yet?

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  7. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhxqBlqXso8
    There are ‘strong whispers in Washington DC’ of Joe Biden’s cognitive decline

    “If there are any issues about his cognitive abilities, then they surely would come out in an intense national debate on three occasions,”

    I’m looking forward to the Trump debates.
    I’m also looking forward very much to the debates between Todd and Cindy. I do hope he doesn’t give her any room to twist and turn like she did with Bill. Bloody Paddy showed his bias.

    Does David Seymour get a chance to debate Cindy???

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    • A year later Bill was gone and Gower was a feather duster- skewered by a 23 year old woman.
      One who knew her gender; did not have blue hair, or covered in tatts.
      Just used words and logic.

      Poor Paddy Chipmunk.
      He was never the same after that 🙂

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    • W G, Have you seen the one where he starts off “hi I’m Jill Joe Bidens husband” if he wins it will demonstrate how stupid the American people are, he’s nuts.

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      • Biden is perfectly happy with his own abilities. It is elder abuse by those who are using him. Anyone who votes for him must be suffering from denial. 🤪

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  8. Part of a comment by “Arthur” on BFD:

    ……”There is a rot and decay in the National Party and Boag is representative of the tip of that vast iceberg and a monument to it. Backstabbing that backfires is a lesson some cannot learn in National. They need a clean out, a purge, but none are so blind as those who will not see and in this case definitely do not want to do so.
    Considering Boag’s history you could suspect there is some definite psychopathy at work there. She has to go but who has the ability to shoot her with a silver bullet, drive a wooden stake through her chest, expose her to sunlight and store the corpse with a crucifix? Todd’s mob cannot find the matches to light the mob’s torches let alone rouse them to kill the demon.”…….

    I couldn’t have put it better myself. Boag is a symptom of a sick party blinded by its arrogance & socially conservative bias. Until they disassociate themselves from the Vatican & return to their philosophy of supporting entrepreneurs, farmers & believers in personal freedom they’re fucked.

    Vote ACT.

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  9. Massey police shooting: 24yo man accused of murdering Constable Matthew Hunt denies all charges
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/07/massey-police-shooting-24yo-man-accused-of-murdering-const-matthew-hunt-denies-all-charges.html

    The 24-year-old man accused of murdering Constable Matthew Hunt has denied all charges in the High Court in Auckland.

    The murder-accused has also maintained his interim name suppression during the brief appearance.

    He faces three charges including murder, attempted murder and dangerous driving causing injury.

    As the man entered the dock, he made a gesture by nodding to supporters in the public gallery. He appeared alongside a 30-year-old woman, who police allege was an accessory after the fact to the murder. She has also denied her charges. Security separated both people in the dock throughout their appearance.

    Name suppression has continued for both the 24-year-old man and 30-year-old woman as part of the ongoing police investigation.

    The trial is due to go ahead in July 2021.

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  10. Question. As Nikki’s campaign chair Boag certainly has access to Nikki Kaye and probably everyone else in the higher echelons. So why did Boag choose to give the leaked health info to Hamish Walker and not directly go to senior members of the National party? Why USE a fairly junior, inexperienced MP to leak this sensitive material to the media?
    ~~

    Boag has now stood down from all her roles.

    COVID-19 privacy breach: Michelle Boag stands down from Auckland Central MP Nikki Kaye’s campaign committee
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/covid-19-privacy-breach-michelle-boag-stands-down-from-auckland-central-mp-nikki-kaye-s-campaign-committee.html

    Kaye, deputy leader of the National Party, told Newshub the 65-year-old was not the chair of her campaign but was on the electorate committee and campaign committee.

    “Michelle held a position on the Auckland Central electorate committee and was on the campaign committee. She has stood down from both roles,” Kaye said.

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    • How many copies did Boag send?
      Are there others out there sweating?

      Has Boag sent copies to those senior members? who then wisely did nothing, and probably deleted it.
      They would then have moved quietly through the National channels if they wanted to sort the problem out, or sort Boag out.

      Though it would seem that Nikki Kaye did not know?
      “Kaye has known Boag for many years and said she was ” absolutely gutted” and “hugely disappointed” that she was behind the leak to the MP”.

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      • Highly likely and as far as campaigns go Boag has been on plenty.

        Boagan was Notional President in the 2002 election when it was slaughtered ….right through to the failed Tamihere Mayoral campaign in Auckland last year.
        That was lying down with dogs like Matt McCarten so Boag is riddled with fleas.

        More to the point, the concern should be:-

        > why the hell was Nikki Kaye associating with Boag given Boag’s hideous history.
        This shows extremely poor judgement by Kaye.
        She cant jettison the blood association with her murdering step brother but can make smarter choices. where choice is available.

        This reflects badly on Kaye and therefore Notional ‘leadership’

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    • Possibly as he was inexperienced and would do what she told him to do. Michelle Boag need to F..k Right off, she is a shocker.

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      • Don’t be surprised if Labour set this up while I totally agree that it is disgraceful that what has been done and want them removed from the National Party I find the attack on National by the media and Clare Curran strange as it happened to long ago. Then you got David Clark’s removal and Jacinda was not happy , so my suggestion is if these emails were being sent to Michelle Boags private email address was it a set up as she has been known to have had a loose tongue many times before. You reap what you sow in Politics and i would suggest Chippy knew before his press conference who leake the emails and rightfully suggest there could serious criminal consequences if it was deliberate. Couldn’t happen to a nicer person and National might have been done a favour.

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    • MP Hamish Walker steps down as National Party’s Southland candidate over COVID-19 patient data breach
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/mp-hamish-walker-steps-down-as-national-party-s-southland-candidate-over-covid-19-patient-data-breach.html

      “Today I am announcing that I will not be standing for re-election for the Southland electorate at the upcoming 2020 election,” Walker said in a statement on Wednesday.

      “I wish to thank the people of Clutha-Southland who I have loved meeting, assisting and representing over the past two and a half years. I sincerely apologise for my actions.”

      Muller says he’s lost confidence in Walker, found out National MP was involved in leak on Monday

      National leader Todd Muller said shortly after that he had accepted Walker’s decision to withdraw his candidacy for the seat of Southland.

      He said Rachel Bird, the National Party’s Southern Regional Chair, had received a letter from Walker confirming he will withdraw.

      “There was a clear breach of trust, which goes against the values National holds as a party,” Muller said. “The National Party Board will still meet today to discuss the selection of a new candidate.”

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      • Good. Look, personally I don’t have anything agaisnt Walker, He made a very stupid mistake and unlike Labour, has paid a heavy price. Muller has shown leadership here unlike Jacinda. I do beleive this may well eventually work towards National’s favour. So whe Fuck face Hipkins starts his crap, Muller can say, the problems been dealt with, not swept tunder the carpet. Hipkisn still has the small matter of how sensitive data is being e mailed to private e mail addresses…..

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        • Apparently easily obtained from the MOH website.
          No passwords etc.
          And that was the reason put forward for sending the info out.
          Too embarrass the Govt.
          Well that worked.

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  11. The Government has this morning announced new funding of $761 million will be available to councils to help them fix their water issues – so long as they opt in the Government’s water reform programme.
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/government-offers-761m-councils-fix-water-issues-if-they-opt-in-reform?auto=6170004707001

    The pool of $761 million would go towards councils upgrading or modernising their water services, including drinking water, waste water, and storm water facilities.

    However, councils will only have access to the funding if they opt in to the Government’s wider water reform programme.

    “New Zealand’s public water infrastructure is run down and needs upgrading, but local government often doesn’t have the resources needed to fix it,” Ms Ardern said.

    “This $761 million investment will kick-start much needed work to bring our drinking, waste and storm water infrastructure up to scratch.

    “Investing in water infrastructure is about investing in the health of New Zealanders – four years ago more than 5000 people got sick and up to four died in the Havelock North campylobacter outbreak and we don’t want to see that happen again.

    “Our problems with drinking water aren’t limited to the Hawke’s Bay – at least 34,000 New Zealanders become ill from drinking tap water every year and many communities around the country cannot drink their water without first boiling it.

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    • The problem is everybody up stream doing their jobbys in the stream that turns into the river and then Auklanders drink it!

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    • Or you know, local councils could stop wasting ratepayers money on their boondoggles and instead focus on their knitting. But I suppose “free money” is easier.

      Wankers.

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    • If useless money wasting cunts in councils around the country would actually spend rate payers money on necessities like water infrastructure, instead of blowing it on monuments to their own stupidity, maybe the Government wouldn’t have to dish out hard working taxpayers money to the pricks.

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    • Riiiight!!!

      So when Trump ties Federal funding to dealing with sanctuary cities and the like, that is bad, like the colour Orange.

      But when Black heart Liebour do it …. it is great.

      Media retards.

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    • The government can go and stick its water reforms up its collective arse. Fortunatly I survive off rain water and I would encourage all Aucklanders who can, to install a tank.

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    • at least 34,000 New Zealanders become ill from drinking tap water every year and many communities
      So they should have a profile, of those homes. places, communities?
      Where are they?
      Is it just the tap water? private?, public? rain water? bore water? spring water?

      Why does the government encourage tourists, + returning kiwis, to tramp, freedom campers, and so one of the early problems that is now widespread, having taken a life of its own and now can infect all water.

      The first isolation from New Zealand waters of Giardia intestinalis cysts was made in April 1990 from water from the Kakanui River (Cochrane 1991)
      https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/00288330.1992.9516522

      Personal hygiene, baby nappies? hmmm.
      Giardiasis is the country’s third most commonly notified communicable disease.
      At 55.68 cases for every 100,000 people in 1996-97, New Zealand’s rate of infection is thought to be one of the highest among developed countries. ….
      …. “Whether that’s just that it’s spread within families and it’s person to person, or whether it’s in water supplies and we just can’t find it there, we’re not sure. …..

      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=1291912

      But throwing money at it all will solve it? 🙁 sounds good? yeah nahhh.
      Boiling drinking & cooking water, what is the problem? as it solves a problem, though I have no idea, it seems a quick cheap resolution.

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    • So Tauranga having got it right (about the only thing), will be penalized to prop up Wgtn and Auckland. They can fuck off.

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  12. The CCP members must be buying them or can Chinese peasants afford our crayfish while they are too expensive for most Kiwis to enjoy?

    Chinese demand for NZ lobster sees air freight volumes jump
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/chinese-demand-nz-lobster-sees-air-freight-volumes-jump-exports-respiratory-equipment-growing

    Data for May shows more than 300 tonnes of live lobsters were airfreighted to China, up 53 per cent on the same month last year.

    General manager of aeronautical commercial at Auckland Airport Scott Tasker said the lobster industry is getting “a much-needed boost”.

    It comes as the Chinese hospitality industry re-opens in time for its national three-day Labour Day Holiday after Covid-19 saw restaurants shut since late January during Chinese New Year celebrations.

    “A few years ago, much of the New Zealand lobster exported would have been frozen tails sent by sea freight,” Mr Tasker said.

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    • Rich elderly Asians (re: Chinese) are limited to what they can spend their money on. Imagine that you are in your seventies and filthy rich. You don’t speak English. Travel overseas is troublesome and tiring (why look outside China in the first place?), nevermind the effects of Covid-19 on international travel.
      You have no need for fancy accessories because who do you need to impress who doesn’t already know you?
      You don’t have the physical stamina for sports or recreation.
      You don’t care for Western cultural stars or their shows.

      Pretty much all you can enjoy is to eat and sleep.

      Hence the demand for the very best in fine food and ingredients from around the world. Money is not an object.
      It’s kind of childish. I see it a lot in Japanese TV programs. People paying stupid money for hand-reared “perfect” fruit. Ref: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZ1HwqrQ-PM

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      • That must be why the rich Chinese pay big money to eat all the exotic shit they do eat there. Baby, just born, rats etc. Not giving a shit about the possible spread of disease.

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        • That’s part of it.
          I don’t think the thought of disease transmission ever occurs to them. Besides, they only have a couple of years left on this world, and they almost look forward (in a perverse kind of way) to all the attention they will get once they become “ill and in hospital.”

          Aging in Japan (for the elderly of 85+) is much more a “regression back to childhood” than it is in New Zealand.

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    • 300 tonne

      that is a hell of a lot of crays.
      Jeez.

      300,000 kilogram at say avg 2.5 kg each one (well above legal size) = 120,000 live crays.
      That is huge.

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      • Two, just legal crays = 1Kg. China do take some of the biggest but apparently it is a sign of one’s affluence to be able to afford to give each guest a cray to themselves. Hence the restaurants take a shitload of the smallest ones.

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    • This Mr Tasker does not know what he is talking about , what he is saying is absolute BS.

      I worked in the rock lobster industry for many years.

      “A few years ago, much of the New Zealand lobster exported would have been frozen tails sent by sea freight,”
      The few years he is talking about is more like 25-30 years ago. Most went to the USA but that basically stopped in the early/mid 1990s.
      Live exports started with exports to Japan in the 1980s. Then to Hong Kong for larger fish ( different style of eating with the Chinese, more banquet meals as opposed to dishes for individuals). Some of the Hong Kong trade started to move over the border to China in the early 1990s and by the end of the decade most of our exports were going to China. Japan, as a market, had declined dramatically.
      When President Xi clamped down on corruption ( and therefore the lavish dining by Government officials ) it affected trade for a while but up until the end of last year prices had doubled, at least over the last 10+ years. They have dropped a little this year as the Chinese economy has retrenched a bit.

      Howitis : this is the slow part of the year for exports. Also the average would be a lot less than 2.5 kg , more like 1.0kg or less at this time.

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      • Sorry Ross. I replied above before I saw your comment but you bring up the greatest flaw in our quota management system.

        The quota runs from 1 April to 31 March. In the Wairarapa area (Incl as part of Cray4) most of the fishermen will put out a few pots in April. That is when they are mating so after a few weeks the females are “berried up” & not able to be taken until they drop their eggs in the July/August spring tides.

        So for most of winter, when overseas demand & prices are high the males are getting thrashed. When the girls are finished with egg duties they suicide into the pots & crash the price which cuts out most of the fishermen’s quota though some hold back a few ton to supply the lucrative Chinese New Year market mid summer.

        The way the quota is fished has, at least in the Wairarapa, caused a huge imbalance in the male/female population. The unserviced females absorb their eggs back into their bodies & it’s all over to next year. Anecdotally I’ve heard an account from an experienced diver who’s watched six females waiting to be fertilised by one small male.

        Fishermen are not farmers. I’d be interested in your thoughts.

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        • Fishermen are not farmers. I’d be interested in your thoughts.
          Unintended consequences.

          The “Tragedy of the Commons”, First in, maxed out, best served.

          The game of being a socialist way is believing they own it.
          It then becomes trying to control by punishment of the over successful, to try and lower the catch rate.

          Now if private ownership is allowed of an area, then that would change, as then “husbandry” of the resource would be put into practice, knowing that you will get some benefit later.
          Even to put some more resources in to aid the biological system and some return may be made on that as well.

          Not so perfect for migratory fish, particularly pelagic species & such. Maybe cooperatives?, and ownership makes it more skin in the game for the “operators”.

          The sea & fishing has remained a wild west form of range farming, and difficult to figure. Except for the bureaucrats to get their nose in the trough with their fees, etc..

          3

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          • ……”Now if private ownership is allowed of an area, then that would change, as then “husbandry” of the resource would be put into practice, knowing that you will get some benefit later.”……

            Not necessarily. About the time the Chatham Island cray resource was taking off there was no such thing as regulations provided you had a licence, returned egg bearing females to the water & adhered to size restrictions.

            With my own eyes I’ve seen the beaches of sheltered bays covered with dead & dying undersized cray sorted out from the days catch by fishermen taking cover. The law said that the fish had to be returned to the water but the pig ignorant bastards wouldn’t throw them back where they had a chance of survival.

            If there were no restrictions there’d be no fish. The most successful fisherman in the world will be the one who catches the last fish in the ocean.

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            • Chatham Islands Crayfish created a gold fever, for many men and their dog.

              Some just headed off and arrived in the Chathams, just like searching for gold.
              A lot of deaths due to inexperience of such waters.

              In those days there seemed to an ignorance, plus driven by the energy from that gold fever. Many jumped in, and headed out the Chathams. I think about half a dozen or more boats were lost then.

              Fisherman, many years ago, seemed to work on the theory, that fish had tails, and would go somewhere else, if the fisherman did not catch them, there and then.

              Not all fisherman are bad as, but some did not see the problem, as their eyes lit up on the $ sign and the only principle they took from a farming view, was to make hay/money while the sun shined, before the other guy caught it.

              Heady exciting days, helicopters unloading boats at sea, so they could keep on fishing.
              Pockets full of money. Life was on the go, until, the crayfish crashed.

              Most of the big profits went out of the Chatham Islands.
              Same as the sealers, just whacked everything so it was shortlived industry.

              It did serve a purpose at the time, as it stopped the government closing the Chatham Islands down and giving per family a state house and $10,000 to go back to NZ.

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        • What you say is correct nasska , re what happened in CRA4. I have been out of it since the early 2000s but I keep in touch with a friend who sells a major portion of NZs catch. I think the pattern of the CRA4 catch has changed a bit and is now more spread out, well past the July/Aug end date , which used to be the end of the season (ie. all quota caught) for most of the fishermen. This could be a result of the imbalance you highlight. It also might have something to do with most of the older, highly experienced fishermen have retired.
          Overall I think the quota system is OK but issues such as the imbalance of male/female (in any particular area) can be addressed if the fishermen act together and agree to spread their catch more over the year. The system allows for this, but getting the fishermen to agree would be extremely difficult. The other issue is most of the quota is owned by non fishermen and those quota owners just want the highest dollar they can get.

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          • …..”most of the quota is owned by non fishermen and those quota owners just want the highest dollar they can get”……

            Amen. A mate of mine owns his own boat but leases quota. Last time I spoke to him the price was $115 Kg. Quota was $85 leaving $30 to the back of the boat.

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            • Exactly nasska. Most of the industry is owned by Maori enterprises and that includes the quota. Most fishermen in the RL industry are essentially employees of the quota owners, but they have to provide very expensive tools to do their “trade”.
              I can see a situation where the quota owners will have to provide the boats and gear as well to get guys to go fishing —in your example $30/kg does not cover much of the expenses unless they are catching a lot of quota

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  13. This was is no transgression. It was more of a general debate, that was 30 years ago.

    Golightly, [ Boeing’s senior vice president of communications] who had only been with Boeing about six months, said he decided to resign for the company’s sake even though the article does not reflect his current views.
    .
    “My article was a 29-year-old Cold War navy pilot’s misguided contribution to a debate that was live at the time,” Golightly said in a statement.
    “The dialogue that followed its publication 33 years ago quickly opened my eyes, indelibly changed my mind, and shaped the principles of fairness, inclusion, respect and diversity that have guided my professional life since.”
    .
    Boeing said it disagreed with the content of Golightly’s article and that it has started a search for his successor.

    https://nypost.com/2020/07/03/boeing-communications-boss-niel-golightly-resigns-over-article/

    Boeing deserves to go broke if that was the real reason to fire him.

    This from his well reasoned article, that years ago he renounced, though regurgitated now, because ;- “an employee complaint about the article, published in 1987”.

    Worst are the ideologues who insist that there is no higher good than the unfettered and loosely-defined “rights” of every citizen.
    But to argue—in the face of the realities of military life—that a woman should bear arms if she so desires is to make the self-defeating argument that the privileges of a given individual are more important than the defense of the society that affords him or her those privileges.

    https://www.usni.org/magazines/proceedings/1987/december/no-right-fight

    A well argued point of view.
    He just did not know how strong and demanding that “ideology” was going to be. 🙁

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    • No wonder people do not want quarantine temporary “residents” in their back yord or any where near them.
      When it seems no responsibility and no accountability.

      Auckland Islands for quarantine station. 🙂 ok I know logistically that would not work, but this hermit kingdom, will have to get something worked out.

      5

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    • How bloody hard is it? Guard all exits. They’re still saying it’s up to personal responsibility. NO IT’S NOT. Lock them down.
      The guards have no power to detain. If someone breaks out, guards must call police. WTF? Bit late then.

      7

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      • Personal Resposonsibility? Then why were we locked up concentration camp style for weeks on end, if we could all have used “Personal Responsibility?” Can’t have it both ways, Fuck wits. Cunts, Retards.

        7

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    • I see on Stuffed that the ugly old slag says ‘policing cannabis is the worst waste of taxpayer money.”
      This from a lying commie shitsack who stole over $400,000 for her “pledge card” (happy to be corrected). Fucking scab infested hypocrites. That’s all these arseholes are.

      4

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      • Think it was 800000? Thief. I remember she also gave away $80 000 000 to the Arts back in the day. I fucking despise polticians, especially that buck toothed mule.

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  14. Boag is never far from trouble.

    -She was PR person for Richwhite and Fay during the winebox inquiry.
    -President of Notional in the 2002 election disaster.
    -There was an incident a few years ago where she was at Auckland Airport for a flight and had forgotten her passport so got the rescue helicopter- with her association until today- to pick up her passport from home and bring it to the airport.
    She says she paid for that. Ok Then.
    -Associated last year with John Tamihere and Matt McCarten in Tamihere’s mayoral campaign.
    They lost.
    -Idiot Nikki Kaye having Boag on the campaign team after all this and below.

    The real cracker is that she was donkey deep in the Bronwyn Pullar/ACC/Nick Smith affair circa 2011 when Nick Smith lost his portfolio and got egg on his face. (not the first time)
    Well hell, a wee recap:
    ….Pullar was still aggrieved at ACC and in a disastrous stroke of coincidence was mistakenly sent the details of thousands of ACC claimants – some of them private.
    She then, according to ACC, tried blackmailing them with the documents in return for two years worth of benefits.
    Ms Pullar denies this, calling it an “outrageous assault and abuse of power by ACC staff [that shows] deliberate intent to destroy my privacy and reputation”.
    Ms Pullar then leaked the documents mistakenly emailed to her to a reporter – in what she says is “evidence of a privacy breach” at ACC…..

    So, the ‘support person’ for Pullar was Boag and Pullar was trying to blackmail ACC for a big payout.
    Judith Collins got tainted in this and Ralph Stewart- a reasonable chap – had just started at ACC and had to resign.
    Nick Smith was demoted. How much damage to Notional?
    This was another similar event of leaked confidential medical documents that Boag has been associated with.
    Does it ever end?

    With Friends like Boag you sure don’t need enemies.
    Lie down with Boag and you get fleas. Really big, mean, plague-ridden fleas.

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  15. No wonder Robbo and Cindy are chucking the cash to maintain the illusion of a healthy economy. How long will they be able to maintain the skin on the rice pudding before it sinks?

    Coronavirus: New Zealand records biggest GDP quarterly fall in 29 years – top Kiwi economist
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/money/2020/07/coronavirus-new-zealand-records-biggest-gdp-quarterly-fall-in-29-years-top-kiwi-economist.html

    His analysis found that New Zealand had recorded its biggest quarterly drop in GDP since 1991 in the first quarter of 2020, contracting by 1.6 percent. In the first quarter of March 1991, our GDP contracted by 2.4 percent.

    The drop also marks the first time New Zealand has recorded negative quarterly growth of any kind since 2010, when our GDP contracted by 0.5 percent.

    “We are going to see more job losses. We’re not out of the woods yet,” he told The Project. “Once the actual economic realities start to hit, I think a lot of Kiwis are going to realise there’s still a lot of strife out there moving forward.”

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    • “Coronavirus: New Zealand records biggest GDP quarterly fall in 29 years – top Kiwi economist”
      That’s only for the period of Jan-Mar 2020. The really interesting quarters will be Q2 and Q3. Watch out for the Dead Cat bounce. There will no doubt be a bounce back in the period when the country returned to Level 1 from Level 2 or 3, due to the pent-up demand.
      The life-supporting wage subsidies are masking the real effects of the downturn. Sooner or later these subsidies (like the fiscal morphine that they are) will have to end. Then the pain will come. Real pain.

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  16. “If he’d been one of my Ministers I’d have sacked him on the spot” Cinderella Ardern today, ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,ha,he,he,he,he,he, FFS does she think NZrs are thick ? oh wait.

    13

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    • LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL. Cindy darling, we not all stupid, lefty lying twats….. You haven’t fired one minister…. Haven’t answered one question, … haven’t done anything useful but as you say “Let’s Keep Moving…” Fucking off is moving. Just Fuck Off.

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      • Cindy. Why did you stick your fingers in your ears all the other times and there has been many, you did five eights of fuck all. You lying bitch!

        5

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  17. From One Law For All, excuse the length but its a must read..esp the reaction from the HCC Councilor.

    “1Law4All Subjected to Racist & Hate Speech Attacks”

    “Recently 1Law4All published a booklet called To All New Zealanders: Are we being conned by the Treaty Industry? The information, facts and truths provided in the booklet have been researched over many years and is easily verified by anyone willing to take the time to do the research.
    The distribution was done by volunteers. Some of it was done during the Covid 19 Lockdown with volunteers delivering them while on their daily walks for exercise. If you have not yet received a copy, you can read the entire booklet here.
    The response so far has been overwhelmingly positive with many requests for further copies and distribution of the booklet. New Zealanders are sick and tired of the entire Treaty Industry and the misrepresenting of our history by iwi activists and their sycophants who benefit from their traitorous actions.

    Some of the positive responses are:

    “Great booklet. Needs to be circulated as widely as possible. Will be doing my share.”
    “Hi I am inquiring if I am able to purchase more of these booklets , I wish to give some to my friends
    It is very informative and has all the key things in it to have a robust discussion.”
    “Would I be able to get a carton of the booklet. I have read a copy. Maybe 10 booklets if you can’t do a carton”
    “Am getting deeply disturbed about the protests and claims being made by IWI,
    about reinventing history and claims of Colonial oppression??., which must be stopped..
    Would appreciate if you would send me another batch of Treaty Books
    possibly another 30 if still available.”
    “I was introduced to your excellent booklet by an associate, Arthur, in
    Auckland. I would like to procure about 30+ of these for friends/colleagues
    sympathetic to a democratic society.”
    “I wish to thank you for the 6 booklets you sent me recently. The booklet is an exceptionally useful document and, despite its brevity, must have taken a lot of work to assemble. I have made good use of the extra copies”

    Racist Hate Speech
    Sadly, it also generated some hateful and racist attacks from some people who are obviously completely ignorant of our real history or have much to gain from supporting the re-written version, currently popular with politicians and activists alike.
    I will use *** to minimise the impact of these statements on your eye balls and sensibilities, but please be warned, the quotes are not pretty and may offend some people:

    e russll wrote: “F*ck off back to your own land White Pig sh*t Pakeha we dont want you here, thanks for the toilet paper hahahaha”
    Al.Majendie wrote: “Myth 25- The pamphlet writers at 1 law for all are smart people. Truth 25- They’re a bunch of white supremacist knob jockeys who can take their Hegelian bullshit and p*ss off back to Vienna where their ideas came from.”
    Caitlin Dunne wrote: “You are scummy c*nts and your booklet is gross as f*ck. Get in the bin ya dickheads.”
    Nga Mihi, from the mokopuna of Heke Pokai wrote:
    “We do not want your grievance and our people have too much Mana to seek pity, especially from the people who raped our women and burnt down our whare to overtake our land (but that doesn’t push towards colonialism at all, right?) we want you to understand the difficulties of growing up in New Zealand as a lower class Maori. It’s hard!
    To read this b*llshit makes it worse. Please refrain from mailing your demeaning, misguiding and manipulative booklets to my house in Levin. Also please get f*cked. Or I’ll chop down your flagpoles. F*ck you !!!!!!”

    You can read the booklet, and you can read these comments. I’ll leave it up to you to decide where the Hate Speech comes from!
    One negative email received was from a Local Government politician, Councillor Dave Macpherson of the Hamilton City Council. He wrote:

    “Please don’t bother sending your ridiculous right-wing booklet to representatives of communities that have moved well past your racist arguments.
    I haven’t opened it, and have placed it straight in the recycling bin.
    In respect of your racist claim on the cover about the so-called wealth and power grab by the newly created tribal elite – you fail to note that the forebears of the people you moan and whinge about, actually owned and controlled this country 100% before your English colonial thieves turned up and stole it, paying nothing with the exception of a few hundred muskets and some mouldy blankets.”

    How does Dave Macpherson know the booklet is racist or right wing if he didn’t even open it? The booklet obviously stayed as closed as his mind. Shouldn’t it be part of his job to make sure he is well informed of the facts for when he has to vote on decisions that affect all of his rate payers? In fact, Mr Macpherson, the comments and reason for the booklet are to argue against racism!
    It is extremely disturbing and a sad indictment on all politicians in this country that they will support popular ideology in decision and policy making, rather than facts and reason.”

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    • Real Racists by their words and actions. All Lefties, just like the Democrats in USA. Fuck them all. Cunts.

      7

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    • Typical Dave McPherson comment look him up he is very much a controversial character was one of two hospital board representatives who refused to resign when it was taken back by the government from the board for incompetence there is a lot I could add but I’m sure he would sue me.

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  18. How about putting a soldier with a big fucking machine gun instead of a security guard, with the orders to shoot if people try and abscond?

    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12346479

    “The security guard does not have the power to police and apprehend, but the guard can communicate and observe, he said.

    But the guard cannot physically restrain someone, he said.”

    Why bother with a guard then? May as well as put a 3 yr old on a tricycle.

    All this shit about getting the army/airforce involved and we have this clown show.

    Unicorns with fairies more like it .

    Your Fuck up Hipkins. Own it.

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    • I am expecting better but have learnt to be disappointed by any attempt by this current government to get it right. The man is reportedly a resident who arrived from India. Seems devious given the report he went for a gap in the fence to get away from the hotel where we are paying his way. I hope his documentation has been carefully examined.

      During lockdown I went on a daily walk as was permitted. I noted high Police presence on the roads. I am not even slightly accepting that this man from India, reported resident of New Zealand, subject to quarantine, can break away from his palce of quarantine and toddle down to the local supermarket that subsequently needed to be cleaned. He needs to pay all costs connected to his absconding to meet his obligations as a resident. There are benefits and there are obligations. He needs to meet them.

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      • The cunt needs to put on a plane ASAP back to whatever shithole he crawled out of. Useless lying Cindy, so much for her “hard and fast”.

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        • He ran out of poppadoms and naan bread from what I understand.
          He should be reported to the Head Wobbler.
          Fuckin Indians..a blight on the planet.
          Could go a Chicken Tikka right now though.

          5

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    • Put anklets on them so an alarm goes off if they cross the perimeter. Like if you try to walk out of a shop without paying for your jeans. But something like a Tile fob that you can track as well.

      5

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  19. Maybe the media or a blog should ask Andrew Little if he has sent a copy to Jacinda Ardern and the Labour Party of the new laws on sexual violence that will apparently help victims report rapes.
    https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300052002/new-sexual-violence-laws-will-help-more-victims-come-forward-rape-crisis-says
    The Labour Party should be first recipients and for to their staff should be mandatory as everytime it happens they caught out trying to sweep it under the carpet.

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  20. Must of shorted the wrong stock…or found out the love of his life had 5 cellphones and 5 different aliases. Not uncommon here.
    Many ‘suicides’ in Pattaya. We call them Pattaya Flyers, mainly male farangs. Most jump from their 20th-floor condo balconys.
    RIP buddy.

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  21. Where is Mike Bush?
    Haven’t seen him for a month!
    Has he been Cindycided along with Jethro!

    5

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  22. For the last few days I have been texting Peter Williams trying to get him to discuss residency and its variations,citizenship etc because this situation with socalled New Zealanders coming back ‘home’ raises many questions.Especially when it comes to the taxpayer funding non residents and also the sheer number of workers in the country .350,000 according to Ian Lees Gallopaway on Plunkets show today.

    Near the end of Plunkets talkshow he was at last questioning whether we as a country should be looking at the rules around these categorys .Hooray.
    Interesting that India doesn’t allow dual citizenship.I think we should be the same. Our passports appear to be dished out too readily.

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    • I think NZ tends to be a “soft touch.” It certainly seems to be willing to let itself be used as a back door to Australian residency. Coming from a nationistic country like Japan, I am amazed at how un-nationalistic New Zealanders can be (almost as bad as US Democrats in their self-loathing of their own nation).

      And yes, nationalism has its dark side.

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  23. Police have gathered new information on the lady who got out of her car on the Harbour Bridge & jumped.

    A fellow motorist has come forward and told the police that the lady approached him, said she was lost & asked him where she was.

    He told her “Auckland”.

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  24. Build those expressways!

    National says it will build Christchurch to Ashburton expressway if elected
    https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/national-says-build-christchurch-ashburton-expressway-if-elected

    Included in the 60km Christchurch to Ashburton Expressway will be a continuous four-lane state highway, a median barrier separating traffic the two lanes travelling in opposite directions and new bridges over the Rakaia, Selwyn and Ashburton rivers.

    It would link the northern end of Ashburton to the Christchurch Southern Motorway extension currently under construction at Rolleston, as well as the Western Corridor to the south west of the city.

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    • Good news..but it needs to go all the way through to Dunedin..and then start on a 4 laner from Wellington to Auckland.
      Build a bridge across Cook Strait as well.

      5

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      • Add the Kaimais. The descent from the summit on the Waikato side is pretty dangerous with tailgaters using it as a rally run among the numerous trucks. 🤦‍♀️

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  25. It’s time for Granny to sack Harry and Megan from the firm. You’re either in or out.

    Prince Harry and Meghan Markle accused of ‘brazenly’ disrespecting the Queen with Commonwealth comments
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/entertainment/2020/07/prince-harry-and-meghan-markle-accused-of-brazenly-disrespecting-the-queen-with-commonwealth-comments.html

    Prince Harry and Meghan Markle have been accused of deliberately disrespecting the Queen with their recent remarks about the Commonwealth.

    The Duke and Duchess said it was vital for the Commonwealth – led by Harry’s grandmother Queen Elizabeth II – to “acknowledge past wrongs” amid the Black Lives Matter movement.

    “I think that to criticise the Queen’s life work is disrespectful,” Jobson told Kiwi newspaper editor Dan Wootton on his talkRADIO show.

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  26. Dutch police find ‘torture chamber’ with dentist chair after encrypted phones are cracked

    Police say they were tipped off by messages from an EncroChat phone including photos of the container and dentist’s chair with belts attached to the arm and foot supports.

    The messages called the warehouse the “treatment room” and the “ebi,” a reference to a top security Dutch prison.

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-08/police-find-torture-chamber-with-dentist-chair-in-netherlands/12432766

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  27. Last night SWMBO was reading a promotion for the Chatham Islands & it seemed worth considering spending a few days there next February.

    Question: Any of the local blogateriat spent any time there recently? Any tips on where to stay or what to do?

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    • Nasska
      I spent a lot of time over in the 1980s and 1990s with the business I managed. I’m sure you would really enjoy your time over there. Great fishing. The fishermen are just like those you would have known in the Wairarapa.
      There is some good quality accomodation there now.

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  28. Remember the useless Green Luddite who made a big display of riding her bike to the maternity hospital and then sneaked a ride in a car after TV crew left.

    Well Genter has been screaming about NZ First shafting her ideas.

    How sad…,,

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  29. You can see the MSM are taking a much needed expressway seriously.

    Todd Muller pleads for questions on $1.5b highway after interrogation over National MP Hamish Walker
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/todd-muller-pleads-for-questions-on-1-5b-highway-after-interrogation-over-national-mp-hamish-walker.html

    Muller estimated “hundreds of jobs” will be created during construction and it will be a “significant investment” in the local economy.

    “The project will create important economic stimulus and jobs in the short-term while also allowing Canterbury to maximise its future economic potential,” he said.

    “State Highway 1 is the major economic corridor for the movement of freight and commercial activity in the South Island. If we want our economy to create jobs, having an efficient transport network is essential.”

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  30. Who expected NZ First to play by the rules?

    Is this legal? Northland candidates Shane Jones, Matt King scrap over ‘Jones for Jobs’ billboards
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/07/is-this-legal-northland-candidates-shane-jones-matt-king-scrap-over-jones-for-jobs-billboards.html

    Jones is running against King for the Northland electorate, and in the comment section a woman asked King to “get more signage” up in the region because she was not keen on seeing Jones’ “mugshot” around Kerikeri.

    “As the rules may vary between each local authority, the Electoral Act allows election signs that are up to three square metres in size to be put up anywhere in the country from 18 July, subject to any council’s application process and rules about where they can be put up.”

    A spokesperson for King pointed to those Electoral Act rules and said because the election is 10 weeks away King’s claim was correct.

    But Newshub went to the Far North District Council – the authority overseeing the town of Kerikeri – and CEO Shaun Clarke did not find that any rules had been broken.

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  31. On so many issues and points, the greatest costliest con job of virtue signalling for over half a century, of such godless mindless faith.

    But Germany didn’t just fall short of its climate targets. Its emissions have flat-lined since 2009.
    .
    Now comes a major article in the country’s largest newsweekly magazine, Der Spiegel, titled, “A Botched Job in Germany” (“Murks in Germany”). The magazine’s cover shows broken wind turbines and incomplete electrical transmission towers against a dark silhouette of Berlin.
    .
    “The Energiewende — the biggest political project since reunification — threatens to fail,” write Der Spiegel’s Frank Dohmen, Alexander Jung, Stefan Schultz, Gerald Traufetter in their a 5,700-word investigative story.
    .
    …. if renewables can’t cheaply power Germany, one of the richest and most technologically advanced countries in the world, how could a developing nation like Kenya ever expect them to allow it to “leapfrog” fossil fuels? …….
    .
    ……no amount of marketing could change the poor physics of resource-intensive and land-intensive renewables. ….
    .
    ….. The transition to renewables was doomed because modern industrial people, no matter how Romantic they are, do not want to return to pre-modern life.
    .
    ….. The reason renewables can’t power modern civilization is because they were never meant to.
    One interesting question is why anybody ever thought they could.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelshellenberger/2019/05/06/the-reason-renewables-cant-power-modern-civilization-is-because-they-were-never-meant-to/#174ae123ea2b

    Well worth the read, follow the hundreds of billions of $ Euros to unsustainable murderous heights.
    Thieving conniving politicians, bowing down to imbecile children.

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  32. The LA Mayor does his dancing with his flip flops on the head of a pin.

    https://www.foxnews.com/us/la-protests-linked-to-covid-spike-garcetti

    Either it really is a problem, as you expect everyone to accede to your very costly demands of shutting down business’s, while seeming to agree to the other political pressures, to allow protests riots, bending knees, toppling statues, etc.. then saying that they did not follow the rules. yeah right.

    0

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